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UNDERNEWS

Undernews is the online report of the Progressive Review, edited by Sam Smith, who covered Washington during all or part of ten of America's presidencies and who has edited alternative journals since 1964. The Review, which has been on the web since 1995, is now published from Freeport, Maine. We get over 5 million article visits a year. See prorev.com for full contents of our site

January 6, 2009

FLOTSAM & JETSAM: TIME TO STOP BEING AFRAID OF ISRAEL

Sam Smith

Every time Israel does something mean, cruel or stupid you can almost hear the sound of liberals and progressives rushing for a place to hide. Strip away the rhetoric and the excuses and the problem basically comes down to the fact that people don't like being called anti-Semitic.

It's a great shtick the Israelis have used so effectively that behaving appropriately towards their country has cost the U.S. over $100 billion since Israel was founded. For gratitude we have been granted a plethora of unnecessary conflicts, anger in the Muslim world that contributed to 9/11 and the madness of the war on terror, as well as periodic spying on the U.S. by Israeli agents. What other country to whom we have given so much has been so loath to return the favor?

Israel's attack on Gaza, for example, is not only vicious, inexcusable and a violation of international law, it is a direct attempt to interfere with American politics by making sure Obama's hands are completely tied.

Yet, once again, the Israelis are getting away with it because even such supposedly enlightened corners of America as the media and liberal groups are afraid to take them on.

If, the other hand, one feels that it is far worst to support a cruel and unnecessary war than it is to be labeled an anti-Semite then it may be time to be as brave in the face of right wing Jewish accusations as we are confronting criticism by Ann Coulter or Rush Limbaugh. It is, after all, a partner in illogic - of the sort where unsupportable accusations are used to drown actual facts - such as the constant evocation of the Holocaust in which past victims are shamefully dishonored by using them to justify the creation of still more victims.

Once you take the simple liberating step of saying that you don't give a damn what Abe Foxman says about you, then the whole Mid East issue takes on a new look.

For example, you are suddenly free to wonder whether some sort of boycott against Israel might not be worthwhile. As UN General Assembly President, Miguel D'Escoto Brockman put it recently, "More than twenty years ago we in the United Nations took the lead from civil society when we agreed that sanctions were required to provide a nonviolent means of pressuring South Africa to end its violations. Today, perhaps we. . . should consider following the lead of a new generation of civil society, who are calling for a similar campaign of boycott, divestment and sanctions to pressure Israel to end its violations."

Such a boycott might include all of the following: AOL Time Warner, Coca-Cola, Disney, Estee Lauder, IBM, Johnson & Johnson, L'Oreal, Nokia, Revlon, Sara Lee, Home Depot, Starbucks, Timberland, or McDonald's. Or it might include just one for ease of organizing.

Another approach would be a campaign to cut aid to Israel. A modest ten percent - $300 million - would start to make the point.

If you're not quite up to being at least as tough on Israel as Congress was on the auto workers, there are other ways to make your discomfort known - including sending some money to groups like the New Israel Fund that are trying to set an example of what a progressive Israel would be like.

But whatever the approach one prefers, we should all take a New Year's vow not to be afraid of pro-Israeli extremists anymore. They are bullies and it's long past time that we started treating them as such.


74 Comments:

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Well, actually it's the anti-Semites and Palestinian supporters who are bullies. They're the ones breaking the law and attacking civilians. Israel is just defending itself, hardly the thing bullies do.

It would be great for Israel if the US stopped selling its arms. They don't need them, and as a failing state the US is no longer a significant global power and doesn't have much to offer an ally. Israel has been able to defend itself for 3,000 years without American aid, and it will do fine without it.

But that won't happen, because the failing American economy is desperate for any jobs it can get, and its arms sales are one of its few bright prospects. So it will continue to sell arms to all sides in the Middle East, and then complain about how they fight all of the time.

January 7, 2009 12:06 AM  
Anonymous Chris Collins said...

Sam!

Why do you hate The Jews?!?

January 7, 2009 1:07 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Just want to thank you Sam for bluntly stating the truth, and I'm sorry your posts don't elicit more intelligent replies.

-- MC

January 7, 2009 3:37 AM  
Anonymous Mark 4:20 said...

How to help everyone in the Holy Land

The Holy Land is sacred for everyone on Mother Earth. All our blood runs red; we are all the chosen ones.

You can help people in the Holy Land and everywhere by sharing this web site called The Rainbow Bridge t Peace On Earth.

Thanks.

Sincerely,
"Mark 4:20"

January 7, 2009 6:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"The Israelis" are not the bullies, Sam. A deeply flawed and misguided Israeli governmental policy and military are to blame here. As nearly always, it is the politicians--and their military arm-- who are at the root of the problem.

I have tried repeatedly to get commentors here to stop for a second and make this basic distinction . Very few, if any of them, have bothered to do so, but just keep on with continued unpleasantly tinged remarks about 'the Jews'. The above piece Sam is irresponsibly worded. In it, you continue to propagate the lack of distinction between Israeli political policy and the Jewish people--and Israeli citizenry--as an entirety. I forsee nothing from this but the encouragement toward more Jew-bashing posing as 'enlightened political commentary' from the more troglodytic members of your readership (who, unfortunately seem to be the quickest on the trigger to post responses). Please Sam. Stop and think about this for a moment is all that those of us ask who aren't cheering for the death and misery of the Palestinians, but who do tremble to see a very old, malignant and persistent demon being given an entryway through which to poke its ugly head, no matter the presumed rationale for permitting it. This solves absolutely nothing whatsoever.

January 7, 2009 7:41 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

When "the Israelis" keep voting for politicians who pursue genocidal policies, they are most definitely to blame for the situation. When they eventually elect a government that wants to pursue a peaceful solution, then, and only then, they will be off the hook for this.

January 7, 2009 10:45 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Israelis" as you snidely term it, aren't really being offered any choices in the elective arena 10:45. Neither are Americans, but in your view that would be an acceptable excuse. In the case of the dirty, by-nature-hateful Jew, it isn't. Your type makes me physically ill, you will keep inventing any excuse to promote your obvious attitudes toward Jewry in general, and sadly, you have far too many thuggish friends here who are happy to abet you in it. You're the perfect examplar of the type of reader I made reference to above; my appeal is to Sam Smith--any words to your type are lost anyway.

January 7, 2009 11:24 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

10:45 here. First, the quotation marks were borrowed from a poster above and were a comment on their use of them. Second, I have no prejudice whatsoever against Jews in general. The only Jews I have a problem with are those Zionist extremists who refuse to even try to make peace with the Palestinians and keep baselessly accusing anyone who suggests they should do so of anti-semitism. Third, in a multi-party Parliamentary system like Israel has, there is a much wider choice of candidates than we have in the US. The israeli people could very easily vote one of the less reactionary parties into power if they chose to do so.

January 7, 2009 11:50 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Sorry, but I have a somewhat of a hard time swallowing the explanations of those earlier remarks. If you genuinely mean what you say, why not bother to explicate a bit more clearly in the beginning, rather than having to do so on the backtrack?

January 7, 2009 1:11 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Here is an interesting intellectual exercise. If you replace "Israel" and "Palestine" with "China" and "Tibet" and all else being the same, would people think it anti-Chinese bias to criticise China's actions. I think not.

Jews and by definition Israel (a nation for the Jewish people) are subject the same standards as everyone else. When they violate those standards they are to be criticized.

There are anti-semites, so what!
They are Jews who hate gentiles, so what!

Israel has NOT been successful in defending itself for 3,000 years, or am I hallucinating that the temple was destroyed and Jews ultimately dispersed under the actions of the Emperor Hadrian in A.D. 135 or so?

Good, Israel doesn't need our money or help. Glad to know it's not weak and defenseless as it so often pretends.

January 7, 2009 1:44 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

1:11, this tactic is so tiresome. You make no effort to defend your position whatsoever, you just keep attacking other people's ideas without offering any justification for yours. I guess that's because, as 1:44's thought experiment points out, you have none.

January 7, 2009 1:47 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I think it's time to ban the word "anti-semitic". It has been conflated inappropriately with the concept of Nazism to mean "someone who hates all Jews". Unfortunately, from an anthropological/biological standpoint, there are far more Semitic Palestinians in the modern world than there are Semitic Jews. I guess an academic-sounding word is easier to hide behind than the truth: Zionists just hate all Palestinians and anyone who thinks they deserve a homeland just as much as the Jews do.

January 7, 2009 2:10 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Just imagine if American handled its "black problem" in the 1960s the way Israel has been handling its "Palestinian problem" the last 50 years! Israel will become a great and peaceful DEMOCRACY only when it can elect a Palestinian as its "president". I have often wondered why is there a JEWISH state. The separation of church and state is a good thing. Aren't all people supposed to be treated equally? Isn't America supposed to be promoting DEMOCRACY in the middle east?

January 7, 2009 5:20 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Neither side is in the right in this conflict and never has been, at least not for many years. The international community needs to take a much harder line with both Israel and Palestine, as well as the Muslim nations in general. Cutting off the feed trough to all parties would be a good start, until all agree to get serious about negotiations, and once implemented, the hard line needs to continue until such time as actual, as opposed to paper, progress is being made. Until then, the kind of petty back-and-forth squabbling that goes on here between pro-Palestinians and pro-Israelis is nothing more than a perfect microcsm of the ultimate futility and fatuity of what is happening in the Middle East. The world is becoming sick and tired of the stupid intransigence on BOTH sides, and it is time (well past time really) for the world community to force a halt to this.

January 7, 2009 6:46 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"I have tried repeatedly to get commentors here to stop for a second and make this basic distinction . Very few, if any of them, have bothered to do so, but just keep on with continued unpleasantly tinged remarks about 'the Jews'. The above piece Sam is irresponsibly worded. In it, you continue to propagate the lack of distinction between Israeli political policy and the Jewish people--and Israeli citizenry--as an entirety. I forsee nothing from this but the encouragement toward more Jew-bashing posing as 'enlightened political commentary' from the more troglodytic members of your readership (who, unfortunately seem to be the quickest on the trigger to post responses)."
-Anon guy at 7:41

I can distinguish between Jews and Israelis, and Israeli citizens and the Zahalniks, which is why I hold the Israeli government and it's army (the Zahalniks) responsible for the current mindless slaughter of people who stand in the way of the Zionist policy of an "Arab-free"* Israel. We did to the Indians what the IDF is doing to the Gazans now; locking them up in reservation/ghettos, cutting them off from their livihoods, and shooting first and asking questions later. There was no moral justification for the US policy against the Native Americans; there is the same for what the Israelis are doing to Gaza now.

- Strelnikov

January 7, 2009 6:47 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

* Yes I know the Nazis used the same phrase in German during their destruction of European Judaism, but if the shoe fits...

- Strelnikov

January 7, 2009 6:49 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

On the other hand, we would do extremely well not to forget that in the none-too-distant past, the Arabs were quite ready and willing to make common cause with those same Nazis toward the creation of a "Jew-free" Middle East.

I don't advocate supporting the madness of the Israeli policy that is resulting in the daily deaths of children; but neither am I quite fool enough to simply whitewash away the sins of the Muslim world with regard to their semitic brethren; there is little reason to doubt that the brutality and carnage would have been just as severe had the Arabs been given the upper hand. Neither side are innocent lambs in this conflict, and those with little sense of history or knowledge of the past would do damned well to realise this.

January 7, 2009 9:01 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Two arrogant, ultra violent, inhumane, religiously biggoted cultures, murdering each other untill one or both are extinct. That's not a problem, sounds more like progress. Keep it up folks, nither side of your hipocritical holy war will be missed by the rest of human race.

January 7, 2009 10:56 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I have never had anything but respect for the Jewish people, but when it comes to this single issue, a certain sector of their population tries their damnedest to make all Jews appear to be racist, heartless bastards. If you can't understand that a powerful modern nation dealing with its problems by bombing civilians is a serious moral lapse, then you are a scoundrel, Jew or not.

January 8, 2009 12:24 AM  
Anonymous mulcher said...

Keep it simple, bombing civilians in palestine, israel, gaza, new york, bagdad, dresden, panama, is the same action everywhere committed by the same people. There are those who find a way to justify mass anonymous slaughter of innocents and those who oppose it. The justifications of religion, revenge, profit and security can never be enough and will never sway those who simply oppose such murder. If for such ideas I am an anti semite then you have turned that curse into a hollow joke. No one calls me anti-muslim for saying that the hamas government is wrong for their random missiles, no one calls me anti-christian for opposing the invasion of iraq and i have yet to hear the damnation of anti confucionist (or even anti maoist) for my support of tibet. yet deny israel the right granted to none and suddenly it is a special prejudice I hold. whether you defend your murders by calling names or invoking historical injustices or religious fears or even disproportionate self defense, you defend the defenseless.

January 8, 2009 2:25 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

2:25, it's a serious lapse into foolishness on your own part if you actually think that disregarding or whitewashing history helps anybody's cause. It's only by gaining historical (and I might add quite recent historical) perspective on the events in this region concerning ALL the parties involved that we can begin to come to an understanding of how to answer the crisis of the present. That's not "justifying mass slaughter", that's one of the ways that sane people can hope to find an answer to preventing more of it in the future. I do not know why it is so difficult for your type to understand this. Perhaps it's because you're still very young, and the young can only see value in the immediate NOW, history be damned. But examine that same history and you'll discover that it has its own imperatives, quite apart from your own. And if you choose to disregard it, you do so at your peril; that same history has a way of getting its own back on those who choose to be so cavalier with its memory.

January 8, 2009 6:44 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

6:44, if you disagree with 2:25 then you would seem to be suggesting that acts of violence against civilian populations are perfectly acceptable if there is a "historical" justification. I don't see how any ethical person could take that position. If we all thought that way, every country in the world would be full of terrorists redressing ancient grievances.

January 8, 2009 9:40 AM  
Blogger Elderlady said...

Normally, I don't "cut and paste" on your blog, Sam.

But I admire Helen Thomas so much for finally asking the questions that most other members of the White House Press do not dare to ask.

The following is courtesy of DemocracyNow!

The Bush administration, meanwhile, continues to support Israel’s attack. On Monday, the veteran correspondent Helen Thomas question White House Press Secretary Dana Perino.
-----------------------------------

HELEN THOMAS: Why is the President letting more people be killed in this situation, instead of going for a ceasefire and calling for restraint, as they have in the past, on both sides?


DANA PERINO: We are calling for a durable ceasefire. That’s what we are trying to establish.


HELEN THOMAS: But why don’t you call it today and stop people from being killed?


DANA PERINO: Well, I think, Helen, strong views are held on this by all sides. We believe that Israel has a right to defend itself, and—


HELEN THOMAS: Do the Gazans have a right to defend themselves?


DANA PERINO: I think that what the Gazans deserve is a chance to live in peace and security. What President Bush has worked for is a chance to establish a two-state solution, so that the Palestinians could have their own state, so that they could live in their own democracy. And that’s what President Abbas, who is the President of all Palestinians, has been working towards.


HELEN THOMAS: The President did not recognize their election, which was fair and square under international law, as observers—


DANA PERINO: Look, when—the President did call for the—did support the elections. And when the elections were held, I don’t think that Hamas was elected because they said, “Vote for us, we’ll take you to war” or “We’ll hold you hostage” or “We’ll send rockets into Israel every day.” But they won because they were tired—the people of—the Palestinians, people of Gaza, were frustrated with the services that they were getting from the Fatah party, which was a wake-up call for the Fatah party as well. And they have worked to try to improve what they could provide governance-wise for all of the Palestinians.


HELEN THOMAS: So knowing that, why did the US cut off all relation—all aid to the people?


DANA PERINO: We certainly have not done that to the people of Gaza. We do not deal with the terrorist organizations, of which Hamas is designated as one.
----------------------------------

Do the people of Gaza have a right to defend themselves?

Thank you Helen Thomas.

I take no ownership of what happened at Little Big Horn. I wasn't born then. I take no ownership of what happened during World War II, in Europe to the Jewish people. I was 2 years old at the time.

But this is 2008, and if I, as an American do not speak out against the astrocities, the death, the destruction, the misery, the apartheid, that is being perpetrated upon the Palestinian people, by --- not the Jewish people per se, but the State of Israel, specifically, --- I am no better than those people, in Europe, who maintained their silence during the Holocaust.

There is no "historical" justification for repeating the horrors, the violence, the mistakes of the past.

There are "terrorists" on both sides of this conflict.

January 8, 2009 10:19 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I'm betting you're one of those who would "take ownership" of the historical fact of Black slavery in the US and of Black segregation in the US--both of which also presumably occured before your birth. If you do, then it's nothing more than hypocrisy to state that you don't "take ownership" of other historical injustices, 10:19.

History is the patrimony of us all. We don't "take ownership" of it, ownership of it is conferred on each of us at our birth. And we do not get to select which parts of it we choose to acknowledge or choose to ignore, convenient though that supposed option might be to us.

January 8, 2009 12:53 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

It's become customary to expect a shit-storm of abuse to follow whenever anyone complains of the adverse affect on our nation from the Isreal Lobby, even when it's expressed in the mildest of terms, as Sam Smith had done here. In fact, it is clearly demonstrable that AIPAC, for instance, has virtual veto and censure power in our Congress. Anyone remember Cynthia McKinney, and many other representatives who were picked out for political assassination? Right-wing Zionists have exerted intolerable pressure on academic freedom in the USA, anyone remember Finkelstein/Dershowitz? Worse, "neo-con" dual nationality Israelis have played a major role in foisting the disasterous Iraq war on this country. It's high time that this state of affiars became common knowledge. In the meantime, the likes of Dershowitz and Foxman seem to be intent on the mass production of anti-semites, without which their lives and works would have no meaning.
Tony Vodvarka

January 8, 2009 1:16 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anon 1253 makes a good point, one worth thinking about.

Where, for example, do you stand on the ownership aspect of say, the decades of genocide practiced against the American Indians? I'm guessing that was before your time as well. And yet, if you are an American citizen and your family ancestry in this country goes back far enough, it's quite possible that you may have relatives who participated in some of those genocidal acts. How would you stand on that question? Who gets to decide what aspects of historical injustice they do or don't have to take a share in?

January 8, 2009 1:20 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Right, Tony. AIPAC has personally offered a juicy bribe to every man, woman and child in the United States to go pro-Israeli in this conflict.

I'm headed to the bank to deposit mine right now.

January 8, 2009 1:28 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The present moment is the only one we have. If we continue to allow our behavior in the present to be dictated by the wrongs of our ancestors there will never be any human progress whatsoever. We will all just keep on killing each other until we are all dead.

January 8, 2009 1:57 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Then let's not here any more hypocritical chanting about the historical injustices wrought on Blacks and Latinos in the US on this site anymore, please; because if you really believe in your statements, 1:57, then hypocrisy is all that is.

January 8, 2009 2:52 PM  
Blogger Elderlady said...

"History is the patrimony of us all. We don't "take ownership" of it, ownership of it is conferred on each of us at our birth. And we do not get to select which parts of it we choose to acknowledge or choose to ignore, convenient though that supposed option might be to us."

If you have a mind of your own, you do "select" which parts to accept, and which to ignore.

We all get to select what part of our "history" governs our behavior.

The "abused" do not, for any reason, have to.... except that they allow it themselves.... to become the "abusers."

January 8, 2009 3:04 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

If you're a commited hypocrite, 3:04, then yes indeed, you surely do allow yourself that degree of latitude in your "choices".

January 8, 2009 4:22 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

4:22, I love you; you are priceless. You absolutely will not allow these out-of-both-sides-of-their-mouth types any leeway with theirshenanigans. Good for you--andI'm still chuckling over seeing the amount of wriggle room these self-righteous holier than thou's try to make for themselves when the hard questions get tossed at them.

Your remarks about our collective and complete ownership of our shared history as a species are dead on target. Too bad some of these people don't have your sense of perspective. Keep it up, I am thoroughly enjoying reading your back and forths with some of the posters here.

January 8, 2009 4:49 PM  
Blogger benji said...

Great post Sam!
I'd take the silly responses as a measure of how spot on you are! Try to say anything straight against the colonial racism that is zionism (a land colonized for one ethnicity displacing another both physically and it terms of its rights to land, to return and to resistance) and hypocritical attacks come raining on you.
As for referring to the wrongs visited on groups such as blacks and latinos, the history has to be owned only when it feeds into present injustice or discrimination. Such systematic discrimination is not these days visited upon jewish people in America, France, Germany, etc... so no particular redress (or indeed special rights) is at present justified for this group.
benji

January 8, 2009 6:40 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Or, better yet, the history only has to be "owned" when you think your "ownership" of it can be used to guilt trip others, whilst raising yourself a few inches higher on your pedestal of self righteousness. Your post, 6:40, is deeply emblematic of the kind of self-serving doubletalk that a couple of people here have been quick to puncture holes in.

January 8, 2009 7:18 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Trust me 718, there are many here who have very good reason to wish that they could just make all recollection of the Arabs' collaborationist past with the Nazis just disappear down Winston Smith's 'memory hole'.

January 8, 2009 7:27 PM  
Blogger benji said...

Silly me! In my deluded self righteousness I totally missed that palestinians had equal statehood rights, rights to a modern army, to controlling their borders, etc!... And that israel does not in anyway try to raise itself a few inches (or miles) above them on any self-righteous pedestal (for example by claiming to be the most moral army in the world).
Oh and please don't bother answering substantive points either, it's so much easier to denounce intentions. Sam's point needs no better confirmation.

January 8, 2009 7:31 PM  
OpenID hippasus said...

John McCarthy writing in The Independent says:

"This week's OCHA report may state that Israel's blockade means that food, medical supplies, fresh water and fuel are so severely limited that Gaza is on the brink of a humanitarian disaster, but Israel's foreign minister, Tzipi Livni, denies any such problem. She promotes a widely held view that the suffering of the people in Gaza is their own fault for tolerating Hamas leadership.

"Is this intransigence so surprising? We have had 60 years during which the modern state of Israel has never been taken to task for ignoring international criticism. It has ignored, with impunity, countless UN resolutions on the right of return of Palestinian refugees, on ending its occupation of the West Bank and encouraging its civilians to settle in the Occupied Territories, among others.

"And why are they not brought to task? The simple fact is that Israel has the most powerful psychological influence to count on – the world's collective guilt over the Holocaust. This means that although the world may sporadically slap Israel's wrists, no one dare go too far, perhaps out of fear of being accused of anti-Semitism or in any way attacking a people who have historically suffered so much. The tragedy is, though, that it is now another people, the Palestinians, who are suffering because of the world's hesitation to offend Israel.

"Pro-Israeli sentiment is reinforced by many in the international arena who, privately perhaps, approve Barak's "villa in the jungle" metaphor. To some, Israel represents a foothold of Western values on the edge of the Arab world, which, with the rise of fundamentalist Islam, is perceived as a growing threat. And there is, to me, the very frightening growth of fundamentalist Christian belief – especially in the United States – that, given that the existence of the Israeli state is part of God's plan, it is above criticism."

January 8, 2009 7:37 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

good god, the Israelis sound like modern day Nazis!!! READ THIS from today's NYTimes.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/08/opinion/08khalidi.html?em


Op-Ed Contributor
What You Don’t Know About Gaza

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By RASHID KHALIDI
Published: January 7, 2009

NEARLY everything you’ve been led to believe about Gaza is wrong. Below are a few essential points that seem to be missing from the conversation, much of which has taken place in the press, about Israel’s attack on the Gaza Strip.
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Ronald J. Cala II

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Times Topics: Israel | Palestinians | Hamas

THE GAZANS Most of the people living in Gaza are not there by choice. The majority of the 1.5 million people crammed into the roughly 140 square miles of the Gaza Strip belong to families that came from towns and villages outside Gaza like Ashkelon and Beersheba. They were driven to Gaza by the Israeli Army in 1948.

THE OCCUPATION The Gazans have lived under Israeli occupation since the Six-Day War in 1967. Israel is still widely considered to be an occupying power, even though it removed its troops and settlers from the strip in 2005. Israel still controls access to the area, imports and exports, and the movement of people in and out. Israel has control over Gaza’s air space and sea coast, and its forces enter the area at will. As the occupying power, Israel has the responsibility under the Fourth Geneva Convention to see to the welfare of the civilian population of the Gaza Strip.

THE BLOCKADE Israel’s blockade of the strip, with the support of the United States and the European Union, has grown increasingly stringent since Hamas won the Palestinian Legislative Council elections in January 2006. Fuel, electricity, imports, exports and the movement of people in and out of the Strip have been slowly choked off, leading to life-threatening problems of sanitation, health, water supply and transportation.

The blockade has subjected many to unemployment, penury and malnutrition. This amounts to the collective punishment — with the tacit support of the United States — of a civilian population for exercising its democratic rights.

THE CEASE-FIRE Lifting the blockade, along with a cessation of rocket fire, was one of the key terms of the June cease-fire between Israel and Hamas. This accord led to a reduction in rockets fired from Gaza from hundreds in May and June to a total of less than 20 in the subsequent four months (according to Israeli government figures). The cease-fire broke down when Israeli forces launched major air and ground attacks in early November; six Hamas operatives were reported killed.

WAR CRIMES The targeting of civilians, whether by Hamas or by Israel, is potentially a war crime. Every human life is precious. But the numbers speak for themselves: Nearly 700 Palestinians, most of them civilians, have been killed since the conflict broke out at the end of last year. In contrast, there have been around a dozen Israelis killed, many of them soldiers. Negotiation is a much more effective way to deal with rockets and other forms of violence. This might have been able to happen had Israel fulfilled the terms of the June cease-fire and lifted its blockade of the Gaza Strip.

This war on the people of Gaza isn’t really about rockets. Nor is it about “restoring Israel’s deterrence,” as the Israeli press might have you believe. Far more revealing are the words of Moshe Yaalon, then the Israeli Defense Forces chief of staff, in 2002: “The Palestinians must be made to understand in the deepest recesses of their consciousness that they are a defeated people.”

Rashid Khalidi, a professor of Arab studies at Columbia, is the author of the forthcoming “Sowing Crisis: The Cold War and American Dominance in the Middle East."

January 8, 2009 8:01 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Aww, I sure do feel sorry for all the people who're getting pissy over the fact that some folks here have had the bad taste to bring up the recollection that their Islamofascists pals once hung out with the fascists of the National Socialist variety. It's got to be pretty embarassing to y'all that you can't just wish that fact away.

Whatever...I know that if I had to take my pick between a world run by the Jews, and one run by y'alls' rug-chewing Mohammedan nutjob buddies, the choice would be so easy it wouldn't even bear being called a choice.

But you guys go ahead and suit up in your keftis and bourkas, and get back to me on how great it is to be living under a theocratic dictatorship where you and people like Sam Smith would end up getting their nuts hacked off in the public square for even thinking about running or writing to a free-thought, free-expression publication like Prorev...

Bye, dimwits. May Allah be looking out for your asses if the day ever comes that we're all forced to bow down to the muzzein-blowers. You'll need someone to protect your silly, naive selves from yourselves.

January 8, 2009 8:48 PM  
Blogger benji said...

Well well, our friend of reason and moderation revealed as a raging racist! Who would have thought? A choice between a "world run by the jews and one run by y'alls rug-chewing Mohammedan nutjob buddies" would be easy as all choices based on a simplistic and dangerous racialism are. Good job there is no such choice to be made as long as a good majority of us opt to choose for equal rights, respect and against states run on ethnic lines, be them in Germany, South Africa, Rwanda, or indeed Palestine.

January 9, 2009 1:22 AM  
Blogger benji said...

Oh and if collaboration with the Nazis is the criterion of who should pay the costs of the racist colonialist zionist project, by that token Israel should be established over all of Germany (for sure the most complicit with Nazi dictatorship), not Palestine! Or perhaps on the land holdings of the Bush family, GWs grandfather having been instrumental in financing Hitler...
Many of these Zionist arguments are like deflecting flares the F-16s spout out: shiny hot decoys used to cover up the commission of ongoing crimes against humanity.

January 9, 2009 2:04 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

'Scuse me Benj. Your pal "the raging racist" here.

I'm not the poster who wrote the words prior to mine at Thursday evening. (Actually, I wish I could claim otherwise.) Figures a mouth-breather like you would just automatically leap to the conclusion that nobody here could be in disagreement with yourself, and that anything you read here that is has to be written all by the same person. Well, I don't come to Prorev to read great minds at work on the Comment pages--thanks for keeping with tradition there.

PC crackheads like yourself break me up, you really do. I can't read this site without some goofballs shouting at the top of your lungs about how stupid those damn liberals are, and yet, here y'all go, spouting your own version of PC B.S. that, for sheer stupid per square inch, beats the liberals to a frikkin pulp.

"Simplistic"?! Benj, you of all folks, out there tossing around idiotic quotes like : "Oh and if collaboration with the Nazis is the criterion of who should pay the costs...by that token Israel should be established over all of Germany (for sure the most complicit with Nazi dictatorship)"...Son, did you flush your meds down the toilet, aor sell them for crack or something? That has GOT to be just about the stupidest thing I've read here in awhile, and that's saying something.

But please, Benj, by all means--go shack up with your Islamaniac friends, and be sure to write if you can. I hear it's kind of hard to get ahold of things like pens and paper in their jails, but I guess a dedicated soul like you could always rely on your blood, heh heh...

January 9, 2009 7:32 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

to 7:47 and 8:48.

Of course the Arabs were involved with the Nazi government! The British were enforcing the much hated Mandate. Quiet as it is tried to be kept, there were Zionists who collaborated with the Nazis, too. They (Zionists and Nazis) had much in common, both wanting to maintain the "purity" of their "race". Goes to show how stupid they both were, this talk about "pure races." Only fools believe such nonsense.

January 9, 2009 7:54 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I have read that the right wing of the Isreali terrorist groups, especially the Stern Gang and Irgun, who are the antecedents of today's Likud Party, were drew heavily on Benito Mussolini's brand of fascism. By the way, is it possible to conduct civil debate here? People who spew ad hominem trash-talk clearly have nothing else to back up their propositions.
Tony Vodvarka

January 9, 2009 9:49 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Awww, those poor A-rabs, 'forced' to collaborate with the Nazis. I'd feel one hell of a lot sorrier for the poor bastards, if it weren't for the fact that between Nazi fascism and the Islamic variety there's never been a lot of difference; so I don't really imagine the idological strain for the sheiks and emirs could really have been all that great...

Good Holy Gods, you sons-of-bitches will go to any lengths to defend your IslamoPals, won't you? And I can't really doubt that if some variant of the Nazi Party comes back in your sorry lifetimes, you and your buds'll be the first to sign up for your Party cards, and the first to be sitting in the dock sniveling and puking about how you were just 'forced' to follow orders. Screw you.

And word up, Tony--if that qualifies as an 'ad hominem' attack--GOOD. It's all you and 'Benji' and the rest of your sadsack crew of moral shitbirds deserve.

January 9, 2009 11:25 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Quod erat demonstratum
Tony Vodvarka

January 9, 2009 11:33 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Latin for "here's the proof that a sorry-ass moral relativist bastard will always have some excuse."

--Love and Kisses from
"The Raging Racist"

January 9, 2009 11:40 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Maybe the Jews deserve sympathy but they are totally myopic and contribute to their own problem by being unable to open their minds to reality. It's time the world community took them to account. The terrorism they dispense is at least equal to what they endured. No doubt the political leaders drive the frenzy, but reason needs to prevail. We are seeing the seeds of an impending disaster.

January 9, 2009 11:52 AM  
Blogger benji said...

Dear Irate anonymous (and apologies if i should ever get my anonymouses confused with one another),
It's a shame, though possibly not a surprise, that you can't recognize the absurd logic of your very own arguments of justifying present-day massacre and/or occupation by referring to what the mufti of Jerusalem did say in 1943 behind my ironic suggestions...
But then again, racism is the process of painting the other as somehow less than human and to be abused rather than argued with...
Getting a dose of your own distorted logic medicine appears to make you run for the low ball insults, for which there is no special need, nor can the violence of your tone stand in lieu of strength of argument.
benji

January 9, 2009 5:02 PM  
Blogger benji said...

This post has been removed by the author.

January 9, 2009 5:02 PM  
Blogger benji said...

This post has been removed by the author.

January 9, 2009 5:02 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Benji, if I wanted a course in logic distortion, I'd only have to go back and re-read your posts here to obtain a full semester's worth of it...the voice of sweet reason you're now trying on doesn't fit you any better than the numbskull remarks you've tried to pass off claiming that Jews under the Nazis were the REAL collaborators fit reality. If you think that you're going to just erase the memory of that howler by getly crooning that you were only being 'ironic'...there's some powerful irony going on here I'd agree, but it ain't what you think it is...if the Jews are being 'myopic' then the Arabs --I'm not going to adopt the PC word 'Palestinians', because 'Palestinian' is nothing more that a two-dollar euphemism for 'Arab', which is what they actually are, and which you guys know damned well are a nationality none-too-loved by the Western world, and with bloody frikkin good reason, what with their history of violence, collaborationism, support of sleazy dictatorships and religious hysteria; so you hope to do a PR job on them by referring to the 'Palestinians', as if to suggest they're a wholly separate breed altogether--then Jewish myopia's more than been counterbalanced by the catastrophic blindness of their Arab neighbors which has stretched back for some time (well before the arrival of the Brits in the area, I could add) and which has caused Jew-hatred among them for a longer time than that, culminating in the atrocities of today.

Oh, no Benj--I don't think the Arabs are "less than human" at all. I think they're all too human. Like most humans, they'll keep persisting in stupid and shitty behaviors as long as bleeding hearts stand by weeping over their 'courage' and 'indomitable spirit' when what they're actually doing is behaving like cornered rats. That's typical human behavior there, Benj.

But it makes you feel comfortable, and better yet, it makes you feel superior--a feeling you and some of your pals gere seem to be in dire need of--to pretend that you have some special and elevated views of the situation. Like most people who need that Linus-blankie, you arrive at it by reducing everything down to the simplest black-and-white view (oh Holy Shite, there I go showing my racism again by saying things like 'black-and-white', I actually meant to say 'views of duotone shades and ehtnic pluralities'). Like most humans, you also need an enemy to project your scorn onto, otherwise where's the background for yor high moral tone to stand out in high relief from? Nobody'd see it then, and they might just mistake you for a fallible scmuck like the rest of us. So, there's THE JEWS. They have a long history of being heavies, right? Nobody really, in their heart-of-hearts actually much likes 'em anyways, right? Great! There ya go--the perfect ready-made easily recognizable bad guys for you to play out your Starbuck's-corner- table version of political insight against, and hey, nowadays the girls will just love ya for being so savvy as to be on the 'right side' of the issue--everybody knows antisemitism's been dead for years, it's just those fukkin jewboys who want to keep pleying THAT card the better to get AIPAC squeezing the money out of us...

Know what I suspect your real problem lies in, Benj? I
have a gut feeling it lies in the fact that for the past few years, voices and opinions like yours have been the big dogs barking in the tent. You managed to get the world to believe that the whole situation came down to nothing more complex than that filthy Judenschwine liked nothing better than to run around shooting up adorable little Walter Keane-eye'd 'Palestinian' chilluns. Never mind the rivers of Jewish child-blood those same 'Palestinians' had been pouring into the trough for years with their homemade bombs, and their zany "die for Allah" outlook on life. No sir! We all know deep down who the REAL villains are here--after all, haven't they been the villains for at least two thousand years?

But the earth is starting to turn again a little bit, and some people are starting to reassess this conflict, and they're having the bad taste to speak up, and worse, to point out some 'inconvenient truths' history-wise. And now the real problem starts to come to light here, Benj. You're not having the easy time of it getting everyone else to sit down and shut up while you bark. That's got to piss of the li'l latent Mussolini in your type. Other voices just won't be good and be quiet and take all their direction from you. They'll speak up--sometimes they'll say unpleasant thing in unpleasant ways. And, worst of all, YOU CAN'T MAKE 'EM STOP, the way you could before by telling them that your barking was the most moral bark in the room.

I said before that if I had to make the choice, I'd take living in a Jewish-dominated world over one run by the mullahs any damn day of the week. And all the Arabs have got are mullahs. That's all they want. Mullahs and suicide bombers. Mullahs and suicide bombers represent the limits of their 'liberal imagination', Benj. But I can see why that imagination exerts a real powerful appeal to posturers and would-be thought tyrants like you. If people in the tent won't respectfully shut up and let you bark on uninterrupted, shove a bomb under their chairs. That'll learn 'em.

January 10, 2009 8:47 AM  
Blogger benji said...

I'm done feeding the troll. Enjoy your meal.

January 10, 2009 11:41 AM  
OpenID hippasus said...

Prominent Jews in Australia have issued the following Committee for Dismantling of Zionism statement
They say: "We are part of an increasing number of people around the world of Jewish descent who are sickened by the coldly calculated massacre of the Palestinians of Gaza and who utterly repudiate Israel’s claim that it acts in the name of Jews the world over.
"The massacre in Gaza cries out not only for immediate condemnation but for historical explanation. As scholars working in the fields of genocide studies and research into the long history of European colonization, it seems clear to us that Israel - as in the history of white Australia since 1788 - is a genocidal settler colonial society that since its founding in 1948 continually seeks to destroy the foundations of life of the indigenous Palestinians, their health, dignity, livelihood, personal security, access to education, and political organisation, so that the Palestinians can be replaced by colonizing Zionist settlers.
"The December 2008 Gaza massacre by Zionist Israel poses an intense dilemma for Israel’s organized Jewish supporters and much of the Jewish diaspora, who have for decades cooperated with and been complicit in the ongoing, incremental Israeli genocide of the Palestinians. Israel is guilty under article II, part C of the UN Genocide Convention, in that it intends to destroy, in whole or in part, an ethnic group by ‘deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part’. Will the Jews of the world continue to be so supportive, or will they historically disavow genocidal settler colonialism in the Middle East and question their own previous support?"
These are extracts from the much longer statement.

January 10, 2009 11:02 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Benj, you've just proven to me what I kinda suspected on this site for some time past: namely, that when a pipsqueak calls somebody here a troll, it's just a euphemism for "I hate you because you disagree with me, but unfortunately I'm not able to make a very good counterstatement to your arguments, so I'll just call you a 'troll', so there! Bet I really just kicked you in the nuts, huh?"

Well, no Benj, ya haven't kicked me in the nuts, but you sure have shown that when it comes down to the nub, you haven't got too much of value to add to the mix. So there.

January 12, 2009 9:46 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Olmert never asked us to abstain from UN vote on Gaza truce

By Barak Ravid, Haaretz Correspondent and The Associated Press 01/13/09

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1055188.html

"Olmert said Monday that Rice had been embarrassed by orders from President George W. Bush to abstain from voting on the cease-fire resolution that she was negotiating. Olmert said he had called Bush - and interrupted him at an event in Philadelphia - to ensure the United States did not vote for it.

"I said: 'Get me President Bush on the phone,'" Olmert said in a speech in the southern Israeli city of Ashkelon. "They said he was in the middle of giving a speech in Philadelphia. I said I didn't care: 'I need to talk to him now.' He got off the podium and spoke to me."

Olmert said he argued that the United States should not vote in favor of the resolution, and the president then called Rice and told her not to do so. "She was left pretty embarrassed," Olmert said."

benji

January 13, 2009 6:43 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Speaking of telephone calls with offers that can't be refused, recall Dershowitz's call to Obama that threatened adverse consequences from the Isreal lobby if President Carter were allowed to speak at the Democratic convention. Carter was only allowed to appear at the podium, without speaking, quite contrary to all tradition. Some votes are clearly worth much more than others.
Tony Vodvarka

January 13, 2009 9:14 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

neve gordon ia a professor at yel-aviv university...
"Israeli soccer matches were suspended during the assault on Gaza. When the games resumed last week, the fans had come up with a new chant: "Why have the schools in Gaza been shut down?" sang the crowd. "Because all the children were gunned down!" came the answer.
Aside from its sheer barbarism, this chant reflects the widespread belief among Israeli Jews that Israel scored an impressive victory in Gaza – a victory measured, not least, by the death toll...
...Every child has a story. A Bedouin friend recently called to tell us about his relatives in Gaza. One cousin allowed her five-year-old daughter to walk to the adjacent house to see whether the neighbours had something left to eat. The girl had been crying from hunger. The moment she began crossing the street a missile exploded nearby and the flying shrapnel killed her. The mother has since been bedridden, weeping and screaming, "I have let my girl die hungry". neve gordon/gael bronner

February 7, 2009 3:26 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

neve gordon ia a professor at yel-aviv university...
"Israeli soccer matches were suspended during the assault on Gaza. When the games resumed last week, the fans had come up with a new chant: "Why have the schools in Gaza been shut down?" sang the crowd. "Because all the children were gunned down!" came the answer.
Aside from its sheer barbarism, this chant reflects the widespread belief among Israeli Jews that Israel scored an impressive victory in Gaza – a victory measured, not least, by the death toll...
...Every child has a story. A Bedouin friend recently called to tell us about his relatives in Gaza. One cousin allowed her five-year-old daughter to walk to the adjacent house to see whether the neighbours had something left to eat. The girl had been crying from hunger. The moment she began crossing the street a missile exploded nearby and the flying shrapnel killed her. The mother has since been bedridden, weeping and screaming, "I have let my girl die hungry". neve gordon/gael bronner

February 7, 2009 3:26 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

There is no such thing as a "good" war.
The war in Palestine is a old battle over a patch of barren land that has long passed has stopped being fertile.
I'm not Pro-Palestine, nor am i pro-Israeli stupidity regins on both sides.
First off Israeli's say Palestineians have no right to the land actually, Israel should be bombing Italy since the Romans gave the land to some Persian refugees from Saudi Arabia.
WHY HASN'T ISRAEL BOMBED ITALY?
Talk About Muslims being terrorists, what about all the Israeli terrorist attacks in the '40's did we forget or that Israel IS as big of a threat or more so than what Palestine could ever be.
the US GAVE a Psuedo-democracy several nukes and arms.
Like in history the Jews/Israelis can't keep their god's law and that is why they will always fall short of the Covenant.

February 20, 2009 10:43 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I know Armageddon will occur. Or, perhaps I should say, I hope so. Only then will we, or more properly, those who survive (if any) be spared the relentless barrage of yabble from the middle east, especially from "the usual suspects". Incinerate EVERYBODY there, including the Jews. Then the world can move on with REAL problems. Oh yes, then they (the former inhabitants) can all be heroes.

March 1, 2009 8:18 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Thanks Sam. Very well said.
Please write more on this very important subject.



Boycott Israel links:

http://www.mylinkspage.com/israel.html#INT

http://www.inminds.co.uk/boycott-brands.html

March 2, 2009 2:56 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hippasus, thank you for your link and information.

I can not help but worry that if non-Zionist Jews do not take a stand against Zionism now and roundly condemn both Zionism and Israel, then they will suffer greatly for all of the horrendous crimes against humanity committed by Zionists and Israel. No longer can non-Zionist Jews stand on the sidelines and look away. All patriotic Americans must join in the boycott of Israel simply for the sake of America's national security. Israel is the greatest national secruity problem facing the existence of America today.

March 2, 2009 3:13 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I believe it is ok to be anti-zionist. Zionism is a political movement.


However, that does not make me an anti-semite.

Semites are arabs. Being anti-semite means being anti-arab. It is not the same thing as being anti-zionist or anti-Jew or anti-Muslim. For too long Zionist have mis-used the term for devious purposes.

Neither do I consider myself anti-Jewish for being anti-zionist. Zionism has dishonorably used innocent non-zionist Jews and the memories of all of those killed in the Holocaust because they were Jewish.

The meaning of the word 'Jew' means different things to different people - in particular - it means different things to Jews and those of Jewish descent. Being a 'Jew' can mean someone who practices the faith of Judaism, it can mean someone who considers themselves a 'member of the tribe' - a descendent of Abraham, it can mean certain ethnic and cultural traditions, mannerisms, speech, dialect, or origin associated with Jewish traditions - particularly from Eastern Europe....

March 2, 2009 3:24 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Zionism has caused more problems and misery in the post WWII era than any other espoused political movement. Please extract MY country from this situation and quit using MY money to slaughter thousands of innocent people. I grow weary of any nation whose policies have contributed to the undermining of MY country's core beliefs, whose lobbyists use and manipulate MY spineless politicians, (the ones that fear being associated with that dreaded label... ANTI SEMITISM). Disentangle MY country from this abominable nation that uses collective punishment against their enemies just as the Nazis did time and again in WWII, while preaching about the Holocaust this, without a doubt, the greatest hypocrisy in the history of mankind. Divorce MY country from this sick and perverse relationship. I am confident that this is exactly the kind of nightmare scenario Thomas Jefferson envisioned when he warned about "the entanglements of nations".... no , he could never have imagined this "thing" which is truly a theatre of the absurd!

March 3, 2009 8:11 PM  
Anonymous peter shapiro said...

only when the peoples of the world, and especially the jewish people, can turn, and say to the palestinians with rachel corrie, "you are our brothers and our sisters, will the monstrous devouring entity which is the state which hides behind the name "israel" disappear and return to the abyss from which it arose,,

March 6, 2009 7:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Go to Israel. And when the local Jewish residents find out your not a Jew, they throw stones at you. Then you understand what racism is.

April 18, 2009 5:44 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

This can keep going back and forth like all comments to posts about Israel do...but I want to state one thing.

ISRAEL NEEDS TO DO ONE THING TO HELP SOLVE THEIR PR AND SECURITY PROBLEMS.

THEY NEED TO MAKE FRIENDS WITH THE PALESTINIANS AND THEIR NEIHBORS.

No, not make friends when terrorism stops...make friends now. The people viewing this site seem to be pretty smart. I think you can figure out some ways to help accomplish this. When that is done, Israel will have peace. Before that, they wont. Its really not that complex.

April 26, 2009 12:59 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

It's chilling to see how organised the Israeli and Zionist shills are as they jump on the comment boards with their parsed, nuanced and lawyerly defence of machine gunning civillians in cold blood. I don't blame anyone for posting anonymously as I am also doing. For sure they are keeping lists of people for future retribution. I don't want to suddenly find it impossible to get a bank loan or a credit line for my business.

(and yes, the spelling shows I'm English).

May 4, 2009 5:31 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I don't know anyone who really cares whether or not Israel really exists. And I live in Liberal San Francisco bay Area! We screwed the Palestinians out of their home to appease European guilt after WWII.
it seems pretty obvious to me the Israelis have become what they once claimed to abhor.

June 9, 2009 5:30 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Has anyone, at any time, in any place, ever wanted people of the Jewish religion to be their neighbors?
Can we all agree that some religions make some people less socially compatible than others?
I also think it disingenious that People of the jewish religion try to pass themselves off as a race of people rather than a religion.
And who are these professional posters on here? They certainly aren't the usual posters on Sam's site. I wonder how many of these posters found Sam's site via Google Alerts ...

June 9, 2009 5:41 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Guilt had little to do with American recognition and aid to the Zionist project in Palestine. A very large campaign contribution to Harry Truman by American Zionists in his difficult run for election in 1948 enabled him to conduct a very vigorous wistle-stop campaign around the country and achieve an unexpected victory over Dewey. Harry always paid off his political debts.
Tony Vodvarka

June 10, 2009 9:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

@Anonymous 1/7/09 12:05 am-"Well, actually it's the anti-Semites and Palestinian supporters who are bullies. They're the ones breaking the law and attacking civilians. Israel is just defending itself, hardly the thing bullies do."

Unfortunately what you may not realize is that this would be analogous to, say, German Nazi leadership in the late 1930s saying, "Well, the Jews are parasites anyway, why not just bomb their damned ghettoes?". In neither case would such things ever be even close to reasonable. In fact, it would be violating something called "international law". Look it up, please.

@Strelnikov: Yeah. Why hate all Jews, instead of rooting out who's good, and who's aiding criminality?
It makes no sense. It's like saying all Germans were responsible for Nazism, or that all white people{me included} are responsible for the suffering of minorities in this country.

@Peter Shapiro: Rachel Corrie is a personal hero of mine. She had the bravery to stop the destruction of the home of an innocent Palestinian family, although she paid the ultimate price.

As for the Gaza Strip: If the Israelis went even farther than where they are now, and not only kept occupying it, but by sending more troops there, and even start rounding up and even mass executing these already tortured Palestinians.............
It's about a third of the size of the city of Dallas. We basically would have the world's largest concentration camp here{in fact, it looks like to me that may already be the case}

-SanFran90

August 4, 2009 9:39 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

http://www.greensforum.com/showthread.php?p=20497#post20497
http://www.greensforum.com/showthread.php?p=20498#post20498
http://www.greensforum.com/showthread.php?p=20499#post20499
http://www.greensforum.com/showthread.php?p=20500#post20500
http://www.greensforum.com/showthread.php?p=20501#post20501
http://www.greensforum.com/showthread.php?p=20502#post20502
http://www.greensforum.com/showthread.php?p=20503#post20503
http://www.greensforum.com/showthread.php?p=20504#post20504
http://www.greensforum.com/showthread.php?p=20506#post20506
http://www.greensforum.com/showthread.php?p=20507#post20507
http://www.greensforum.com/showthread.php?p=20508#post20508
http://www.greensforum.com/showthread.php?p=20509#post20509
http://www.greensforum.com/showthread.php?p=20510#post20510
http://www.greensforum.com/showthread.php?p=20511#post20511
http://www.greensforum.com/showthread.php?p=20512#post20512
http://www.greensforum.com/showthread.php?p=20513#post20513
http://www.greensforum.com/showthread.php?p=20514#post20514
http://www.greensforum.com/showthread.php?p=20515#post20515
http://www.greensforum.com/showthread.php?p=20516#post20516
http://www.greensforum.com/showthread.php?p=20517#post20517

December 23, 2009 6:25 PM  

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